Riding the horse in a lower, deeper and rounder frame (LDR) however is something that I do with some horses to relax the back and as a stretch of the topline, but it is always done with utmost sensitivity to the horse's mouth and musculature and never done with any force. It is often when the the rider gives with the hand that the horse will go into this frame. From that the horse can also, if wanted, be encouraged to stretch more forwards and down to achieve a maximum stretch of the back (see Stretching). I think that much of the work with young horses should be in long and low in order to develop the horse's back muscles. I have had students who say "How will he be able to be up and round?" (They think the horse will be heavy due to the long and low work) but I have always felt that once you develop the back in this way and therefore make it stronger, the horse has no problem with being in a higher outline in his own self-carriage and light in the hand. The trainer Walter Zettl compared the young horse to a kindergarten child and pointed out that to demand that such a child do first or second grade work, will cause anxiety and loss of interest and finally depression. I want that the horses I ride enjoy their work. I sometimes ask for a bit more from them, but never something that I know they are too young or weak to do. I have ridden horses who have been ridden in a short, deep and locked position and I find that they lose their free forwards movement and are often not thinking forwards in their minds (it sometimes feels like they have been ridden forwards but with the hand brake on). A consequence of this can be spoiling or even ruining of the natural paces.